Special to Beirut Notes / Terje Roed-Larsen: Crisis could engulf Syria
Terje Roed-Larsen, the UN envoy in charge of implementation of resolution 1559, told a seasoned Arab diplomat recently that Israel has a US "green light" to hit Hezbollah and Syria, but not Iran.
According to a first hand account, Roed-Larsen added that the situation is very dangerous and could spread.
My source added that Larsen might mentioned the Syrian factor because he wanted the message to get to the Syrian leadership.
Furthermore, Roed-Larsen said that US Vice President Dick Cheney, who is not the healthiest of men, will be resigning in three months only to be replaced by Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice.
According to a first hand account, Roed-Larsen added that the situation is very dangerous and could spread.
My source added that Larsen might mentioned the Syrian factor because he wanted the message to get to the Syrian leadership.
Furthermore, Roed-Larsen said that US Vice President Dick Cheney, who is not the healthiest of men, will be resigning in three months only to be replaced by Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice.
posted by zadigvoltaire at 4:47 PM
35 Comments:
It will be better for Terje Larsen to focus on his job as you stated "charge of implementation of resolution 1559". Larsen failed to fill this mission. The sad thing is that his failure costs too many victims on both sides. Any decent person would have resigned after such a failure.
Israel has a U.S. "green light" to hit Hezbollah and Syria from the beginning of this war. However, Israel was smart enough not to play to the hands of U.S.
Let's hope that immature Assad will be smart enough and stay out of this conflict. He has a lot to loose if he'll get involved.
Dear Zadigvoltaire.
I have a european source that heard from a Turkish source that Hezbulla got a green light from Iran to invoke israel and kindle the fire between Israel and Lebanon.
Sorry, in such cases there are a lot of gray areas and a lot of people on BOTH sides get hurt!
I feel a deep sorrow for all the dead wherevr they are, but if someone will continue using Humans
as shields thinks like Kana will unfotunatly happen again. I myself have spent three years as a prisoner of war in the hands of PFLPPF. I had my share of suffering, and still I see no change in the methods of the Arab organizations, using civiliens as their shields!
Yoske Grof
Israel
God this must end. In the name of God, peace, not war. In the name of God, love, not hate.
-- FreeCyprus
http://hellenic-reporter.blogspot.com/
I can not thing about Politics in a time like that.
All i can think about is when this all will be over, the damage in Lebanon, humanitarian crisis... and innocent children die.
I hope the war will end soon...
Shirin from Lebanon
http://shirin-from-lebanon.blogspot.com/
hope the suffering stops on both sides of the border!
The Lebanies are not our enemies,only the Hizbollah's terorists.
My sincere condolances for the KANA
tragedy.
May we have better times
this is a very old story .condi as they call here is bieng rumered to be a vp in order to help her runing against Hilary clinton.
her chances to be selected by the republican party are close to zero .Next Republican president is jhon Maccain
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
فَإِنَّكُمْ بِالدَّيْنُونَةِ الَّتِي بِهَا تَدِينُونَ تُدَانُونَ؛ وَبِالْكَيْلِ الَّذِي بِهِ تَكِيلُونَ يُكَالُ لَكُمْ.
Matthew 7:2
The Holy Bible
I am sooo tired of this bullshit!
(Here in England some people, and the BBC, like to point the finger at Israel, and say how hienous their acts are. Come on! We did much worse when we were dealing with the Irish from the IRA!!)
Get a grip, will you?!
ISRAEL IS NOT TARGETING CIVILIANS NOR DESTROYING LEBANON OUT OF THE BLUE! It is targeting Hezbollah, who initiated this fight. Hezbollah is no longer a resistance movement - the Shebaa farms is yet another preposterous excuse by Syria to try and claim yet another sliver of land from Israel and thus prolong the convoluted state in the region.
Syria doesn't even recognize the sovereignty of Lebanon for christ's sake! Don't believe me? If you're in Lebanon go and try to find a Syrian Embassy or an Ambassador to Lebanon! Or if you're in Damsacus what about looking for a Lebanese mission! There are none!
This is precisely because SYRIA DOESNT RECOGNIZE LEBANON's RIGHT TO EXIST INDEPENDENTLY. And that is the reason Syria (nor Lebanon, for that matter) has never provided any formal document on the cessation of the Shebaa farms to LB, because it would be admitting its right to independence from Syria. It is a baseless claim created by Syria and Hezbollah to justify in the year 2000 a continuation of a belligerant state on Lebanon's side towards Israel and justify Hezbollah's claim not to disarm and continue its "resistance" movement.
Instead LB should have had the courage to kick the Syrians out, disarm Hezbollah, and make peace with Israel.
I'll spell it out for you:
AS SORRY AS WE ALL ARE FOR THE CIVILIANS WHO DIE ON BOTH SIDES, IT IS HEZBOLLAH WHO IS TARGETING THE AND FIRING ROCKETS FROM POPULATED AREAS. NOT ISRAEL. Israel is retaliating attacks from Hezbollah... too bad HA is so coward as to hide among civilians...
or perhaps HA are actually the clever ones here - they are fighting in a win-win-win situation: 1) either they shell Israel, killing their civilians, and become more popular; or 2) they get targeted, but by hiding among and causing Israel to kill civilians, Lebanese (and the int'l community) slam Israel, and HA gains further popularity; or finally 3) the war ends, HA gets the upper hand, and guess what? they become more popular. Not a bad game, really!
Too bad Lebanese and Israelis are getting killed for this....
suggest you see the video. HA firing rockets from QANA:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283816,00.html
Stop blaming Israel. BLAME HEZBOLLAH!
Consent of the governed is what ultimatley limits the power of the state, and prevents totalitarianism.
which is why NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY TOTALITARIAN MOVEMENT - not marxism or baathism or binladenism - has ever held free elections and governed by continuous consent of the people.
hamas and hizballah are ARMED jihadothuggery "militias" which gained strength through INITIMIDATION. if they had been disarmed BEFORE the elections - as they should have been - then they would NOT have won.
hamas - having won in the WB and Gaza - has not enacted a single part of their radical religious program, EXCEPT to attack and try to destroy israel.
the moment hamas and hizballah really try to enact sharia is the day they start a HUGE bloddy "civil war."
Spell-it-out:
I wouldn't like to mnimise Hezbollah's responsibility in civilian deaths, but I can't let the reference to the UK and IRA go unchallenged. The UK never bombed Shannon Airport or flattened housing estates in Drogheda for a border dispute. And at the time, the Irish Republic hadn't formally recognised the border. Israel stepped way over the line by demolishing Lebanon. But the distinction between the baby and the bathwater has always been a difficult one for the Israeli army to muster (particularly when its not their baby) as we can see so clearly in Gaza .
I agree totally about Shebaa. It's a stupid argument. Give it up, Lebanon. There are enough real issues to deal with already. Don't get hung up about fake ones that would be laughed out of court.
Outsider,
IRA did not use Shannon Airport to deliver weapons, unlike HA.
Iranian airplanes are lending in Lebanon with ammunition's supply to HA.
Can you show us one civilized and corrected country that will accept terror groups operate from its soil and put its population in danger?
I'm sure that if it was vise versa The Lebanese (if they had the power), would do much worse then Israel.
Furthermore, the HA openly targets mainly Israelis cities. Why all noble people who criticize Israel do not protest against it?
The difference in casualties' numbers between Israel and Lebanon is a result of the fact that most Israelis cities under attack are evacuated and the minority left is in bomb shelters. Otherwise you would probably get greater casualties number in Israel.
Israel unlike Lebanon/HA worned the citizens and advised them to leave. Those who stays knew for sue that they are risking thuer lives.
Obviesly Spell-It-Out said... is not from UK, he is probably one those sick Zihionist from Israel pretending. This whole nation is only knows how to do propaganda.
Anon 14:26: IRA did not use Shannon Airport to deliver weapons, unlike HA. I wouldn't be so sure about that! And in any case, it still doesn't justify bombing Shannon - and consequently Beirut - airport. While we're asking rhetorical questions, can you give me a case where a democratic nation pulled a stunt like that on a national airport over a border dispute? I'm struggling, but I can't find one.
Israel unlike Lebanon/HA worned the citizens and advised them to leave. Those who stays knew for sue that they are risking thuer lives. So the old ladies are fair game as they couldn't or wouldn't get out? I'm not sure you would say that about any other conflict. Like me, I'm sure you've seen the footage of the 80 year-old women being carried out of villages as they can't walk. They are risking their lives by staying and risking their lives by leaving. Great choice.
If you're wondering about the apparent difference in perception of the Israeli and Hezbollah "scores", it is probably due to the fact that no matter what you say, Lebanon as a country is perceived as the victim in this case. Hezbollah is largely perceived as para-militaries, whereas Israel is a nation state. Speaking personally, I hold Israel to higher standards (take that as a compliment). So people are more shocked/disappointed when rules are broken on your side. That's the tough thing about fighting terrorists.
It goes without saying that innocent mortalities are despicable. And I am looking forward to int'l law prevailing in the long run on both sides.
Outsider!!!
You forget one thing... when X (HA+lEBANON) starts a war and its fire positions, bunkers and weapons' storerooms are inside its own population, it has to face its consequence.
You cannot attack somebody and then start wailing "please do not harm me ... please don't strike the launchers because there are innocent people nearby".
According to the Geneva Convention: If you fight from within civilliant population it's your responsibility if they get hurt.
You said you "hold Israel to higher standards" . Israel certainly has high moral standarts, otherwise the number of casualties in Lebanon was far higher.
This is not a "normal" war. Israel is facing an enemy that doesn't care about its own people rather expect the enemy to mercy them.
Israel tries its best to minimize the suffer of Lebanese people, as far as it possible in a war zone. Unfortunely, its the HA who doesn't.
how many people were killed in Iraq today and how many muslims
denounce the violence in iraq today?
Anaon, 14:26: C'mon, HA didn't start the war, they started a border skirmish that the Israeli army decided to escalate. What's more, the border skirmish was a tit-for-tat reprisal for what's happening in Gaza. Solve Palestine and you'll solve all your problems (but solving Palestine will require a braver set of initiatives than bombing the power plants and bulldozing people's homes and crops).
Anon 19:36 makes an interesting point. Where is this mass of millions of Arab Muslims that are supposed to be crying out to wipe Israel off the map? When's the last time you received even a stone from Syria's direction? Has Egypt sent reinforcements to drive the infidel from Southern Lebanon? Is Jordan secretly training an elite assassination corps? Is Qatar bombing Tel Aviv? Where are they, all these unwashed bloodthirsty killers ready to drive Israel into the Mediterranean? Yes, but Iran... Yes indeed Iran. For the moment, all talk no walk. Yes, but Iranian missiles... Yes, and where do your missiles come from? Right, the champion of democracy: the US. And look at their exercises in democracy: Somalia, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, not forgetting Guatemala and Chili.
One day, you're going to have to live up to the fact that you're not living in California. You're going to have to accept your neighbours for what they are.
When your army decided to smash Lebanon, it smashed probably the only Arab country with a normal democratic process. It crushed a country with a genuine free press and television. It crushed a country where different religions were living in harmony. It crushed a country just released from the grasp of Syria, and now battered to the degree that it might ask it for help. Is this what you want, a region endless caught in a spiral of anger and hate? The TV images being broadcast from Casablanca to Tehran might just be the self-fulfiling prophesy you've been waiting for.
Slobodan Olmert decided to pick a fight, play the big boy on a weak target. The missiles striking civilian targets (and a few non-civilian that the IDF doesn't talk about) are reprisals. This whole thing could have been settled in another manner by progressively isolating HA.
You wrote "This whole thing could have been settled in another manner by progressively isolating HA"
I agree with you...but it was Lebanese mission to solve it. Lebanon harboured HA for decades, let it grow to a monstrous size. When you keep a snack in your house and feed it, sooner or later it will sting you.
We sadley watch Beirut becoming Teheran of the middle east, thanks to Nassrallah.
If you care about Lebanon, you should do something.
Beirut becoming Teheran of the middle east
--
What sort of nonsense is that? Tehran is already in the Middle East. And in what regards its becoming like Tehran? Are you saying that Beirut is under Tehran influence?
To Outsider:
I agree with you that we did not flatten Shannon, but then again the IRA never armed itself the way HA did with the blessings of foreign states. What we did though, when the RBPR deliberately attacked the protesters in Derry is what I'd call to quote you not distinguishing "the baby from the babywater". Then and there, we deliberately targeted civilians.
I can't say Israel is doing that despite most of us in the UK and Europe pointing the finger at Israel. It is easier to condemn when you are on the outside. I, too, would indeed love for a cease-fire to be reached and for no more civilians to die on either side. However, having served in the military, I can understand where the Israelis are coming from. As horrible as it is, the dead in Qana are a byproduct of the actions of HA who (in light of the evidence coming out in the media) did indeed target Israel from amongst the civilians in the area.
One may argue it both ways that the Israelis advised civilians to leave, but on the other hand for various reasons those people could not or were prevented from departing.
At the end of the day, I still strongly believe that the blame for those deaths still lie with HA. Especially in so far as they actually knew the civilians were there, and that Israel is bound to retaliate within minutes of their firing rockets (as has been the case in past days).
The truth is HA win either way - - either they launch rockets against northern Israel and go unpunished, or if Israel kills civilians when retaliating the world castigates the country's actions.
Lebanese should open their eyes, and get their act together. Standing united behind HA will only cause further damage.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
To mj:
Obviously anyone who supports Israel could not be European or non-Jewish, is it?
Wake up! Europeans tend to condemn Israel out of our humanistic upbringing and our own resentments over WWII (I should probably add hypocrisy in the French case, as well!)
Most Europeans do not know what it is to serve in a real army or live in conflict these days.
Our minds are to settled in our own way of life, and seeing dead children's pictures on TV disturbs us.
That is why we slam Israel.
However, those who can think a little out of the box and actually understand a bit of what is going on in the region would not be so quick to criticise.
my suggestion mj: don't take your allies - or your enemies - for granted. Ever!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
To anonymous 00:25
The little flowers of democracy that were planted in Lebanon, Iraq and the Palestinian territories are being crushed by the boots of Syrian-backed Islamist militias who are desperate to keep real democracy from taking hold in this region and Iranian-backed Islamist militias desperate to keep modernism from taking hold.
Iran's IRGC planned this war carefully throughout 2006. IRGC sent weapons and hundreds of volunteers through Damascus in a war designed to contain several stages.
``Iran sees itself more than just the moral father of Hezbollah. Iran seeks to become a major force across the region as a counterbalance to America and Israel,'' said Ahmad Bakhshaiesh, a professor of political studies at Tehran's Azadi University. ``Lebanon is part of this plan,'' he said.
HA - Iranian connection has remained tight. Posters of Khomeini and his successor, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, are common across Hezbollah offices and among supporters. Revolutionary Guard liaisons have been in constant contact in Lebanon, although Iran never publicly admitted their presence.
The CURRENT escalation was decided by Hezbollah and Iran:
Such a decision is taken by its head, Hassan Nasrallah, within the Shura Qarar, the highest decision-making body of the movement. It consists of seven members, two of whom are Iranians attached to the Iranian embassy in Beirut, and who are tied to the intelligence services of Tehran. Through them, Iran knows exactly what Hezbollah is doing, especially when the decision goes beyond the normal red lines, such as attacking Israel outside the Shebaa Farms. In this case, Hezbollah also consults with the Syrians, because the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers carries implications for Syria's security. The consultations with Damascus are often done through the liaison Hassan Khalil, who is in contact with the military intelligence services in Damascus.
There are strong links between Hezbollah and Iran:They go through the Iranian embassy in Beirut, the most important one outside Iran, and by the personal representative of the supreme guide Ali Khamenei in Lebanon, Sheikh Mohammad Yazbek [whose house the Israelis targeted early on, to deliver the message that he's a marked man. But that's not all. Imad Mughniyeh, who was responsible for the kidnapping of Westerners in Lebanon during the 80s, plays an equally very important role. He shuttles between Tehran and Beirut, through the Damascus airport, before using the military routes of the Bekaa valley. Mughniyeh, who is always tracked by the Americans, never passes through the Beirut airport. He is tied directly to Nasrallah, who himself has old personal ties with the Iranian directors. Through Mughniyeh, Hezbollah and Iran have been involved in the Palestinian intifada since 2000. Mughniyeh is notably in charge of recruiting foreigners for reconnaissance operations in Israel or elsewhere. In Beirut, the representative of Hamas, Ussama Hamdan [whose office was also hit by the Israelis in recent days ] is also an essential pawn in the Iranian involvement in Palestine; he was previously the representative of Hamas in Tehran.
Theran controls HA... HA helds Lebanon hostage: Hezbollah movement, handed Lebanon a calamity right as the summer tourist season had begun. Beirut had dug its way out of the rubble of a long war: Nasrallah plunged it into a new season of loss and ruin. He presented the country with a fait accompli: the "gift" of two Israeli soldiers kidnapped across an international frontier. Nasrallah never let the Lebanese government in on his venture. He was giddy with triumphalism and defiance when this crisis began. And men and women cooped up in the destitution of the Shiite districts of Beirut were sent out into the streets to celebrate Hezbollah's latest deed
Lebanon is closer then evet to fall into Irans hands ....and Beirut becoming Tehran will not be Iran's dream come true.
to outsider:
C'mon, HA didn't start the war, they started a border skirmish that the Israeli army decided to escalate.
Yeah, a border skirmish that's been going on for six years, with rockets falling on north Israel, and the third kidnapping of soldiers.... I'd like to see France dealing with a similar situation (they did much better in Algeria, anyway!)
What's more, the border skirmish was a tit-for-tat reprisal for what's happening in Gaza.
What? Now I'm laughing... HA is not responsible for Hamas' actions. The two events are indeed connected, since apparently both Hamas and HA decided that it is fair game to kidnap Israelis from within Israel's borders. The two attacks come precisely from the two places they shouldn't have come: Gaza and Lebanon, both places where Israel holds no sway and has retreated to internationally recognized borders. If we had accepted to negotiate with HA and Hamas over this Israelis all over the planet would have become targets - now we want to swap prisoners, now we want you to retreat to 67 borders, now we want you to depart the ME... But no worries, according to Al-Qaeda apparently that's what's going to happen to the crusades who hold sway over muslim Al-Andaluz (Spain)... Let's see you complain then...
Solve Palestine and you'll solve all your problems (but solving Palestine will require a braver set of initiatives than bombing the power plants and bulldozing people's homes and crops).
Nothing I would like more, actually. The only problem is how do you make peace with people who are sabotaged by groups who want to destroy you? Hamas, Jihad, Hezbollah do not recognize Israel's right to exist. They are not happy with a Palestinian state living side-by-side with Israel (and I am not even going into territorial disputes here, I am assuming 100% of WB and Gaza, shared sovereignty over Jerusalem, land resources, et all). That is still not enough for them. Arafat's excuse for not taking Barak's proposal was that Palestinian refugees would have an unlimited right of return to the newly created Palestinian state, and not to within Israel (which would consequently turn it into an Arab country, instead of a Jewish one).
I am open for ideas here. Let's give them 100% of the WB, a corridor to Gaza (which they already have), control over water, and shared responsibility over Jerusalem. Let's even release their prisoners who have not been directly involved in killing people. Let's help pay some sort of reparation to refugees who decide to come back to Palestine (even though Israel is not asking for compensation over the 600,000 jewish refugees who were expelled from Arab countries and lost everything they had in 1947/48, and which Israel, unlike Lebanon, Jordan or Egypt, made citizens of instead of keeping them in refugee camps in order to create a problem that would ultimately lead to Israel).
Let's do all of this. Which is actually very, very close to Brak's offer back in 2001.
The question is: will they take it this time around? will terrorism stop? will the groups recognize Israel? or will they find new excuses?
Your bet. I have mine.
Where is this mass of millions of Arab Muslims that are supposed to be crying out to wipe Israel off the map?
read the newspapers lately? tired of western coverage? I suggest you read Arab papers. Some of them even have English websites.
When's the last time you received even a stone from Syria's direction?
Precisely. they operate through Hezbollah. Don't think for a minute here that the Lebanese government, albeit their responsibility, are the ones supporting Hezbollah.
Has Egypt sent reinforcements to drive the infidel from Southern Lebanon? Is Jordan secretly training an elite assassination corps? Is Qatar bombing Tel Aviv? Where are they, all these unwashed bloodthirsty killers ready to drive Israel into the Mediterranean?
Even though Egyptian and Jordanian sentiment towards Israel is far from being that of close allies and friends we still have peace with them. I'll twist your question the other way around. We made peace with the Egyptians and returned all the Sinai, we made peace with the Jordanians. Do you see a stone being thrown from Israel into these countries? Do you see any military action against them. We don't agree on most issues, but fine... they're happy, we are happy... we were even the first to offer assistance a year and a half ago when the Egyptians suffered the attack in Taba. with Egyptian approval our military went in to rescue Egyptians and Arabs. We have thousands of Israeli toursits visiting Egypt and Jordan every year. Jordanians come to Jerusalem to visit holy muslim sites.... Then again, both governments control whatever groups might have had the urge to attack Israel. Both governments control their borders, as Israel does with its own. We live side by side in peace.
Could have been the same with Lebanon for years if it had freed itself from Syrian influence and had disarmed HA.
Could be the same with the palestinians if they reigned in their militants and actually sat at table to legitimally try and make peace.
I guarantee you that the vast majority of Israelis would back the agreements.
Yes, but Iran... Yes indeed Iran. For the moment, all talk no walk. Yes, but Iranian missiles...
With a regime like Iran's I am not willing for it to start walking. It might be to late even for countries as far away as Italy then. However, I do believe Iran is more concerned about the US and becoming the new superpower over the Arabs than destroying us. They do supply Hezbollah, which is a militia that denies the Lebanese Government its sovereignty over South Lebanon and who declaringly want to destroy Israel.
Yes, and where do your missiles come from? Right, the champion of democracy: the US.
Yup. But we make our own as well. They're just more expensive. We actually supply a lot of Israeli-design and made arms and components to the Americans as well. But then again, the US also supplies Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, and Europe. The Russians supply Iran, China, Venezuela, Europe, too... So you see nothing is that simple.
And look at their exercises in democracy: Somalia, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, not forgetting Guatemala and Chili.
Bad record, I agree. Although I have to say that the bloodshed in Iraq is not American-inflicted, but rather a sectarian war between muslim shias (backed by your beloved all-talk-no-walk Iran) against the muslim sunis. shias want to create an Iraqstan... the sunis can't quite agree with that. Alqaeda is hoping to kill westerners.
You're going to have to accept your neighbours for what they are.
Also agree with you. will they accept us for what we are?
When your army decided to smash Lebanon, it smashed probably the only Arab country with a normal democratic process.
Semi-democratic, I must correct you. But I agree they were very close to being a true democracy after the Syrians left almost entirely.
It crushed a country with a genuine free press and television.
Again, not entirely right. And this is not taking into account the fact that anyone who openly criticizes Hezbollah or Syria risks being killed.
It crushed a country where different religions were living in harmony.
They love each other indeed... but that's actually their problem to solve.
It crushed a country just released from the grasp of Syria, and now battered to the degree that it might ask it for help.
Unfortunately you're wrong. It is not yet fully released from Syria's grasp. Although it is going on that direction. Partly thanks to the events going on now.
The fundamental and elemental question here is why is it being battered? Israel is not destroying bridges and buildings and airports for nothing. Israel holds the Lebanese government responsible for not taking actions against Hezbollah (I know the government is weak, but still it's their territory), and bombing sites otherwise used by Hezbollah to attack Israel from or re-supply.
Is this what you want, a region endless caught in a spiral of anger and hate?
No. Personally I want quite the opposite. I'd love nothing more than trying to achieve it.
Slobodan Olmert decided to pick a fight, play the big boy on a weak target.
Should I cry for poor Hezbollah?
The missiles striking civilian targets (and a few non-civilian that the IDF doesn't talk about)
Check the IDF and israeli press websites... then we'll talk about what the IDF does or does not talk about....
are reprisals.
Hu-hu... just like in the past six years when we were not fighting in Lebanon, right?! Get a grip!
This whole thing could have been settled in another manner by progressively isolating HA.
We and the Lebanese have been doing that for the past six years. Apparently it hasn't worked, since in the interim Hezbollah managed to gather more weapons than the lebanese army...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
70 people killed in Iraq today .who will cry for them? who will
remember them ? who killed them ?
Listen to this Arab brave woman
http://www.video.exposetheleft.net/video/brigitte-gabriel.wmv
She is the voice of the Lebanese's quiet majority
well done! Well said!!!!!!!!!
Iavankahol, thanks for the measured response. In fact, with a few major differences, we at least are looking more or less in the same direction.
The differences are the question of measure. Lebanon didn't really have 6 years, as Syria was in place until very recently. They basically had a year. Admittedly, the government IS weak. But it's still unreasonable to have expected them to oust or integrate HA in that timespan.
No matter what is said, I still cannot believe this campaign has not been prepared over months.
Lastly, demolishing a country's infrastructure when the country itself is not a party to the hostilities smacks of pure vandalism. Why was the airport taken out first, even before attacking HA headquarters? What about the fuel depots, bridges, TV pylons, petrol stations and roads (bombed before telling people to leave).
The reasoning is that "Ah, HA received ammo through the airport, transported it across bridges using fuel." So why not fly to Turkey and bomb the Toyota plant, as they were probably driving Japanese trucks? In an earlier post, I asked the question whether the British army would have been justified in bombing Shannon airport as IRA arms shipments came through there. I haven't had an answer. What do you think?
Also, given the scandalous deaths of the unarmed UN observers, I think we are entitled to question either Israeli intelligence or the army's good faith. So knowing this army is continuiing to target non-military facilities, do you feel comfortable?
Outsider:
Why do you say that the Israelis are "demolishing a country's infrastructure?" While there has been SOME infrastructure destroyed and there have been a few roads destroyed (mostly the ones to Syria) and yes, the tarmacs of Beirut Airport have been destroyed (so Syria and Iran can't resupply HA), most of the infrastructure of both Beirut proper, and the rest of the country is intact. The government buildings are still intact, the power grid is still intact, so I have to believe you are purposely exagerating the damage here. Yes, most of South Lebanon has been destroyed, but it's not like we're talking about Chicago here. It was mostly small villages that don't take a whole lot of effort to destroy, and shacks can be rebuilt pretty fast, all they need is a good supply of corrugated tin and they're back in business. It's mostly the roads and the tarmacs that have sustained damage, and those, too, will be replaced when the hostilities are over.
What I fail to understand is why the Lebanese think that the world needs to do their dirty work, in defanging HA? By your own estimation, the Lebanese have had at least a year to disarm HA (I say they've had way more time than that, but I'll grant you at least a year), and by your own admission, they haven't done so. In fact, HA has grown stronger in the last years. So the Israelis should just die quietly while the Lebanese dither? Sorry, but I don't think so.
I'm also sorry that the Lebanese don't have the intestinal fortitude to have ousted or defanged HA before it got this far, but the responsibility for this situation rests squarely on the shoulders of HA. It was an act of hubris on their part, as I'm sure they were operating under the "business as usual," we kidnap a couple of yours, you return a couple HUNDRED of ours mentality and the Israelis decided they no longer wanted "business as usual." OOPS.
Now HA is stuck between a rock and a hard place, and the rest of the Arab world has pretty much thrown them under a bus. You wanna know why?? Because they're more scared of the PERSIANS than they are of the Jews. Funny thing, that. The rest of the Arab world knows something you don't and that is that the PERSIANS ARE NOT ARABS, therefore the Arabs don't want a Persian hegemony in the middle east becasuse they know what that entails, and unfortunately, HA read that sooooo wrong, so now they're stuck out in their arrogance and total stupidity. OOPS again.
As for the PR war?? Who gives a rat's patoot that HA is singing the old and tired WE WON song?? It's not gonna feed their kids, nor is it really being bought in the rest of the world thanks to the Internet. 10 years ago they could feed those staged photographs of Qana to the liberal media and they'd be in Pulitzer land. But, thanks to blogs like this, the Captain's Quarters and even hard liners like Michelle Malkin, their propaganda machine has had a monkey wrench thrown into it. Can you say JENIN MASSACRE?? I do believe they lost mondo credibility with anybody but the craven MSN with that one, and this time they've been called on it.
William T. Sherman (of Sherman's March to the Sea fame) said "War is Hell," and boy was he right, so if the gutless Lebanese ditherers didn't want to see their country used for a military playground, then they should have ponied up and defanged HA in the first place. Gawd knows they would have had lots of help if they'd just opened their traps and asked, but they chose to let HA thrive, and now they reap the consequences for such a gutless strategy. I don't feel sorry for them. Sow the wind, and ye reap the whirlwind.
Either Lebanon acquires some backbone and conduct themselves like a sovereign country and control their borders and their CITIZENS, or they just changed the name of the place to Lebanonastan. Of course, it makes no difference to me one way or the other, as an American, I have electricity, I have a nice place to live, I eat well, I don't have a war going on in my back yard, and my country has control of it's CITIZENS, so that some fanatic religious group in California doesn't start lobbing missiles over the border into Mexico. Granted, we could have a little better control of our Southern border, but the Mexicans don't want to kill us....they just want our money.
Duchess of Austin
Duchess of Austin - have you even been to Lebanon?
It was mostly small villages that don't take a whole lot of effort to destroy, and shacks can be rebuilt pretty fast, all they need is a good supply of corrugated tin and they're back in business.
Duchess, for a moment I thought you were serious. Thanks for bringing some humour to the debate. We need more of that.
and my country has control of it's CITIZENS, so that some fanatic religious group in California doesn't start lobbing missiles over the border into Mexico What you don't control is the fanatic religious group running the country, that has God whispering in its ear and preparing for Armageddon while throwing missiles into Iraq and - indirectly - South Beirut and now the Christian quarters.
Sorry, Darlin, but you have no proof of that. Just saying it doesn't make it so. You don't see Christian fundamentalists strapping on bombs and walking into Walmart for God. It doesn't happen.
I found a link for an article that I highly recommend that you read. You seem to be fairly open minded, and you might learn something. The article deals with Islam as a fantasy ideology and is very well written. http://denbeste.nu/external/Harris01.html
I found it well worth the read.
Duchess Of Austin
"According to Rosa Brooks, a University of Virginia law professor who has analyzed the convergence of politics and religion, "Conservative evangelical churches were able to deliver voters for Bush in much the same way, and for much the same reasons, that labor unions and political machines like New York's Tammany Hall were once able to deliver votes for the Democrats: They offer material benefits to people with nowhere else to turn, and that is easily parlayed into votes at election time."
And add that to this:
At the center of it all is Pastor John Hagee, a popular televangelist who leads the 18,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas. While Hagee has long prophesized about the end times, he ratcheted up his rhetoric this year with the publication of his book, "Jerusalem Countdown," in which he argues that a confrontation with Iran is a necessary precondition for Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ. In the best-selling book, Hagee insists that the United States must join Israel in a preemptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West. Shortly after the book's publication, he launched Christians United for Israel (CUFI), which, as the Christian version of the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee, he said would cause "a political earthquake."
Link: http://www.alternet.org/story/39748/ (it details some of the direct links between Republicans and CUFI/Hagee).
You might think this is a bit far-fetched. Your link is also far-fetched inasmuch as it deals with al-Qaeda and Islamic fundamentalism. Al Qaeda is not in the picture in Lebanon. I don't have to repeat that the overwhelming majority of Muslims do not identlify with Bin Laden any more than most Christians identify with the beligerent rhetoric of Hagee. But Hezbollah is now becoming a hero amongst the displaced of Middle East and beyond. The Israeli attacks in an entirely unwinnable war are doing more harm than good. Thanks to Israel, a regional dispute is being fanned across the world.
Once again - and completely unnecessarily - the Israeli tail is wagging the global dog. All I can say is: not in my name.
We will have every Hizbollah women fucked by dogs.
We will send Phallus of ours into ass of All priests moslems.
We will have Khamenei and Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad and Khatami and Akbar Ganji fucked by a great penis Of donkey and whale .
We will fuck all foreign government which help mullah.
کیر سگ تو کس ننه سید اولاد پیغمبر و کس ننه خود پیامبر اسلام.
کیر خوک تو کس ننه امام حسین.
کیر خر تو کس ننه شیعیان.
صلوات: الله و کیر خر تو کس ننه محمد و آل محمد.
This is a beautiful cultural message for you.
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